#jude vs wren | Explore Tumblr posts and blogs

thedrunkenreadersreviews · 8 months ago

Text

A Review on The Prisoner's Throne by Holly Black (SPOILERS)

*Sip, sip* And we're back at it again with that faerie wine!

Now, I know. It has been a hot minute since I posted. The new year has been hectic but I got 2 book reviews coming at you. Let's start with this one.

*Sip, sip*

I knew they would be back and that is why I went to a midnight launch to get my hands on this book. To see the return of my High King and Queen ... ahhhhhh ... but we must have patience and so we shall.

Let's examine this in plot and characters first.

*Sip, sip*

Firstly, let me say that the plot felt a little ... perhaps not as organized as previous plots. For example, the first book focused on the theft of Mab's bones and the creation of these stick creatures which I thought was pretty awesome and enjoyed. Here, that plot goes no further. I wished it was explored a bit more; the power of Mab's bones and the connections it has to the land of Elfhame as a whole. We know Mab was the first High Queen and essentially created Elfhame, so I wanted to see just how interwoven Mab was with the land because, as was explored in The Folk of the Air trilogy, the High King/Queen is immensely connected to the land. That entire part of the mythos kind of fell away to make room for Wren.

*Sip, sip*

Speaking of the whole storyline with Wren ... I'm sorry guys, for the most part, I did not care for it. It's not that I necessarily found it lacking but rather, I found myself disappointed. I had mentioned in a previous post of mine how Holly Black is one of those authors who does not sacrifice the importance or power of one character for another, typically in the case of taking from a male to distribute to a female character. For example, in her novel The Darkest Part of the Forest (which is my favorite standalone faerie book thus far and not just a Holly Black fairy book), never is Severin's status or power diminished for the sake of building up Hazel. It makes perfect sense how, during the climax, Hazel is able to fight as she is. Likewise, in The Folk of the Air, it makes sense that Jude is more strategically inclined while Cardan is more magically inclined, and I LOVED it! I loved how Jude did not possess anywhere near the same magical abilities as Cardan but was rather spectacular for everything she earned. Cardan is a faerie, a descendent of Mab, and the blood High King. It is understandable how he is more connected to the land and thus able to wield it more absolutely than Jude. Jude, on the other hand, taught herself the ways of spying, learned to fight from a vicious redcap, and had to learn to play the game of the folk as she lived in Faerie most of her life. They complement each other incredibly.

*Sip, sip*

Wren, to me, was a bit much. This whole concept of her being able to unmake things made me twist my lips. I understand that hags are the supreme beings of Faerie and how Wren has hag-blood. This manipulation of magic, of being able to unmake things took away, I think, from Cardan, Jude, Oak, and yes, even Mab.

Why? Well, Mab, in a way, is like Jude. She learned how to play the game, she played it well, and Bogdona was upset she got fooled. But, to me, Mab won the Faerie Game fair and square. The land, Elfhame, the crown, all of it belongs to Mab and her bloodline. And Mab gained the ability to create, to bring life. That is the whole Greenbriar thing.

Now, I could work with Wren having the ability to unmake things if it contributed more to the plot of this Greenbriar = Creation, Bogdona/Wren = Destruction. But it doesn't. It just creates a hurtle for Jude. What I think would have been great was to bring this question of Creation vs. Destruction to the forefront. Mab's bones can make things because they are imbued with her power. Great! Can they cure Wren? Can the remark what Wren unmakes? Could Cardan and Jude's power to create block Wren's power to destroy? Could Mab's bones and Cardan and Jude's powers protect Elfhame from Wren's? There are so many questions I wished would be explored but they were never touched on. Could Cardan deflect Wren's spell of unmaking? Could Wren unmake something that Cardan made?

Now to some of you, it may seem obvious ("Well, duh, she can. She has the blood of a hag.") And, you know what, fair. But we should not underestimate the abilities of Mab (who tricked a hag and gained the power of one) and I would have loved it if it played out more.

*Sip, sip*

As for Oak ... oh no.

Readers ... this book made me dislike him. Not hate him, no. And I did not always find myself annoyed with him. Most of the time, throughout the book, I enjoyed Oak but when he annoyed me, my goodness did he annoy me.

*Sip, sip*

As someone who personally detests the whole "ghosting" trend, beating around the bush, talking in circles, and not being direct, I DESPISE the miscommunication/ no communication trope to no end. Anytime Oak even thought about Cardan I slammed my head into the book and seethed past gritted "Just fucking tell him!".

Truly, I had some theories on why Oak may be reluctant to tell Cardan anything. I found no reason besides him being afraid Cardan would tell Jude. Again, fair, but something as simple as saying point blank because faeries cannot lie, "Listen, Cardan, I am not going to ever try to take the throne from you. You do not have to worry about that." Oak's guilt about what he made his sisters endure for him, fine, I understand. But I don't remember a time of him lamenting what he put Cardan through (as I hoped he would) or what he took from Cardan. Rather, he mentions it briefly in passing but does not elaborate. This whole concept of him thinking Cardan wants him dead seems a bit much, even with what he overheard Jude and Cardan talking about in the beginning.

*Sip, sip*

As suspected, though, Cardan is not an idiot.

*Sip, sip*

Jumping back to the plot, the whole ending seemed a little like "Wait, what?" Why is the Ghost done so dirty? Randalian's flip-flop seemed a little Fallout meme "hold on, now." Nacassia and the Undersea were just sort of there (I know she is setting up for an Undersea storyline but as someone who hates cheaters, sorry, I feel nothing for Nicassia so I couldn't care less), Madoc is kind of just pardoned, the falcons who betrayed Elfhame are sort of okay now, someone who literally tried to assassinate Cardan (I think it was twice now) is just sort of free to go. Like, what?

But anyway ... On to the main points.

*Sip, sip*

Oak and Wren.

As much as I found myself annoyed by Oak, I did not necessarily dislike Wren (as I tend to favor villains in books) but found her unforgivable at times. Some of her actions had me pondering, "Oak, how could you have romantic feelings for this girl?" I understand why Wren did most of the things she did. But the way she treated Oak the whole time he was at the citadel, uh, no. Freezing him, starving him, having him in solitary, humiliating him, like ... lying by omission as Oak did, yeah, not cool. Torture via neglect---not cool either.

*Sip, sip*

Do I ship them? I mean ... I don't oppose it but I wasn't really rooting for them through the book. I did not feel the same chemistry as I did with other faerie romances that Black has written. Some characters with great chemistry are Kaye and Roiben, Severin and Ben, Cardan and Jude especially, even Hazel and Jack I felt more pull to. Hell, even Val and Ravius. Why is that? Well, I'll keep this in the Elfhame part of Faerie for those who haven't read the other books. So comparing Cardan and Jude to Oak and Wren as both can be considered enemies to lovers:

Cardan and Jude start off with a mutual hatred.

Oak and Wren do not.

Cardan inflicts his hatred upon Jude and Jude does it right back to him. It is mutual, shared, and practiced on both sides up until they both cave and when they both cave they both cave at the same time.

That's not what happens to Wren and Oak. Their hatred, or rather cruelty, is one-sided. Wren is far more, I guess, negative towards Oak than Oak is towards Wren. Neglect is still a form of abuse; even if the person is not actively being physically, verbally, or mentally abusive, they are still abusing the person via their lack of attention and mindfulness. So when Oak was Wren's prisoner, she was being neglectful and tormenting. Which, hey, he lied and it was a big lie too. So I could fully understand Wren wanting to humiliate Oak because she felt humiliated too. But humiliation is one thing. Neglectful abuse for several weeks is another. Yet, since book one, Oak has had feelings for Wren, whereas Wren harbored a lot of resentment for Oak in the beginning of book 2.

*Sip, sip*

So, do I ship it? As I said before, it is not in my fleet. However, I am not opposed to it. I think Oak does a lot more for Wren than she does for him positively, and I think Wren inflicts a lot more negative things upon Oak than vice versa. Honestly, for this one, I feel as though Wren and Oak would have been better if they ended as friends with the possibility of romance in their future. I think they jumped it too quickly, especially after everything they put each other through. I think having the time to explore being friends again would have been better for their relationship with Black leaving us with a nugget of but you know, they are going to be together in the future.

*Sip, sip*

And now, for the main event.

*Lifts glass*

CUE THE HOMELANDER MEME!

It was perfect. Perfect. Everything. Down to the last minute details.

*Sip, sip*

Yes, my High King and Queen were as fabulous as ever and stole the show every time they were on the page. They were just as in love as ever, still as badass as ever, and both have even matured but not entirely.

Cardan commanding everyone to be killed had me cackling like a Disney witch. Jude's sword fighting is still top-tier. And the fact that Cardan and Taryn still don't like each other had me crying even though Cardan dots upon her son.

Confirmed! Cardan is great with kids as we all suspected.

Him completely ignoring Oriana and her opinions on decorum because he is the High King had me nodding in agreement, one hundred percent. Throwing food into people's wine goblets as a game with Leander, splendid.

Jude resting her head on his shoulder, well done. Jude "threatening" Oak to die for the High King, badass. Jude calling for her good sword, sick! The fact that the sword Severin gave her was not destroyed, big relief (like I was actually sweating when I saw it return, beginning Wren not to touch it).

Them agreeing to Nicassia's stupid little party to keep their people safe, major flex.

Cardan walking off getting stabbed in the chest, giving the order to have people executed to then escorting his people to safety by making a deal with his cheating ex is an I'm him moment.

"Liar," gave me chills and flashbacks to The Wicked King, chapter 15 (hehe ¬‿¬).

Jude acting just like her "dad," put some respect on her name.

Like, if this book was worth reading for any reason, it was them. They did not take up most of the book but when they were there, they were THERE. I loved Jude and Oak's fight at the end, and I loved Oak and Cardan's conversation. I wish they had spent some time talking about how Oak was part of the original plot to put the crown on Cardan's head or how they both fell for vicious women, but the ending was great.

*Sip, sip*

So, was it a good book? Yes, it was. It was an enjoyable read and had that whimsy that all of Black's faerie books have. It was great to see old characters, discover new ones, and expand even more on the realm of Faerie. You know Holly Black loves these characters, especially because of how frequently she keeps returning to them in recent years. It is understandable. These characters are spectacular.

All of the books set in Faerie written by Black so far, for me, from most favored to least, are as follows:

The Wicked King, The Cruel Prince, How the King of Elfhame Learned to Hate Stories, The Darkest Part of the Forest, The Queen of Nothing, The Prisoner's Throne, The Stolen Heir, Tithe, Ironside, Valiant.

Also, another review is being posted soon to make up for my absence. If you have a book you'd like to recommend for me to read, I'm all ears (or, eyes, I guess lol). I am also on Goodreads (same name: thedrunkenreaderreviews).

Anyway, thank you for your time, enjoy the faerie wine, and with the weather growing warmer, why not go for a swim with the nixies?

Till next time, cheers.

*Sip, sip*

#the prisoner's throne #oak greenbriar #cardan greenbriar #jude duarte #the stolen heir #the folk of the air #tfota #holly black #books #book review #the cruel prince

20 notes · View notes

eerna · 2 months ago

Note

Hmmm to me it felt that HB didn't wanted to make wren having true agency because it would make her unlikeable to the readers, already people were wishing death for her if she crossed Jude in some way. Nicasia deserves to have her yuri story though 🤧

Omg don't remind me of the blueballing that was Wren VS Jude... The fact that most people thought Jude would emerge a winner if they fought for real is astounding. Like. Jude is smart and could outplan her if needed, sure. But Wren can like. Explode people with her mind. She doesn't scheme, she doesn't plan, so Jude can't outplan her. The clout that girlbossification gives you is astounding

JUSTICE FOR YURI NICASIA 2K24

#eernask #eernanon #eernask talk tfota #remember how in tpt wren was like ''i like playing i like scheming'' BITCH SINCE WHEN #you TRIED scheming likr a MILLION times and you succeeded ONLY ONCE #like your DEFINING TRAIT IS BEING UNABLE TO SCHEME #god. tpt was such a bad book

10 notes · View notes

clockworkbee · 11 months ago

Note

Jurdan's first kiss vs Oaken's (does oak x wren even have a shipname) first kiss. Both Jude and Suren were trying to prove a point, but which do you prefer and why?

Jurdan’s first kiss <3 (I call Oak and suren oakren, but I also tag their posts as suroak, so *shrugs* use whatever vibes with you 😅)

When Suren kissed Oak, it was with the intention to show him and herself that his flirtation wasn’t sincere, expecting to punish him only to feel punished herself. (and don't get me wrong; this girl's hopelessness, fear, and rage kept me hooked, but her need for love while feeling unable to believe it or let it in, still has me in chokehold)

Whereas when Jude kisses Cardan, her intention is to see just how much he really hates desiring her (in case he's playing her), and then having the knowledge that she is punishing him with the proof that he does want her.

I love jurdan's first kiss more mostly because of the tension between Jude and Cardan. Finally getting to see Jude kinda drunk on power, knowing she has the upper hand, seeing Cardan hold himself back and then being unable to show his desperation, Jude freaking out while enjoying the kiss and throwing her knife aside, and then Cardan barking out a startled laugh after that kiss??? XD And the perfect balance of his confession before the kiss and his determination not to say more about just what he imagined afterwards? I am a SUCKER FOR IT ALL 😩 (Oak and Suren’s scene feels lighter in comparison? And the most we get from Oak in that scene is just how he kisses her back and then tells her that she knows where to find him, like that was all? I really wanted more dialogue from that boy)

for tfota ask game

#woah that took a while #😅#tfota asks #bee's answered #jurdan #oakren #suroak #the stolen heir #the cruel prince #tfota

28 notes · View notes

elliepassmore · 10 months ago

Text

The Prisoner's Throne review

5/5 stars Recommended if you like: scheming, court intrigue, faeries, morally gray characters

Stolen Heir review

First, I want to say I called it regarding Oak being exactly the kind of person you would think he would be after being raised by Madoc, Oriana, Jude, Cardan, and Taryn (and the Court of Shadows). How any of his family members were surprised by that I have no idea. I'm also happy to say that Taryn actually does seem to have gotten herself together and is much more tolerable in this book than in TFOTA (of course, that was also 8 years ago and Oak's POV is not Jude's, but still).

I enjoyed Stolen Heir but I think I like this one better. I did miss Wren's POV, though like with Oak's in book 1 having her narrate would obviously give some things away. The first book was quest-based and so we got to see a lot of new people and places, and much of the plot centered around the details of the quest. This one, on the other hand, is more along the lines of what we saw in TFOTA, where it is court against court and scheming abounds among those who want power. Questing plots are fun, but I do think I prefer this kind of intrigue.

I was so excited to see Jude and Cardan! I found it interesting to see them through someone else's eyes, since in previous books we've only ever seen them through their own, but Oak is Jude's younger beloved younger brother and Cardan's nephew and BIL, so he has a very different view of them than they do of themselves. That being said, they are more or less exactly as we remember and I enjoyed getting to see their interactions and reading their sass.

Oak is a trickster and a liar. He is, as mentioned, exactly the kind of person you would expect considering his family and the people he grew up around. He's good at scheming and seeing what people want, but he's also incredibly loyal and would do anything for his family. Unlike his father and sister, Oak still doesn't have ambitions for the throne. But that doesn't mean he isn't still involved in court intrigue, and this book shows us just how involved he is and the manipulations he's willing to use to protect the throne. It was interesting to get inside Oak's head since he's a child in TFOTA and Wren is technically a newcomer. Oak does feel like he needs to live up to what his family needs and the sacrifices they've made for him (though let's be honest, Jude's queenly ambitions only started with Oak, she sustained them on her own), and that creates an interesting dynamic. Related to this and to his scheming, Oak has so many layers and masks to portray the things he wants people to see that he also feels like people don't really know him, and it was interesting to see how that plays out.

Oak and Wren spend a lot of time separated in this book, but it's clear Wren is trying to get a grasp on what's going on and what exactly she wants. There are enemies closing in on all sides, and she struggles to find a workaround for all the people demanding things from her, and who have the power to make those things happen. While I know it would probably spoil some of what she's planning, I would've liked to have Wren's POV in this book alongside Oak's. I feel like we are missing part of the story by not having it, and I'd like to know more of her thought processes and how she decided what was a strategic decision vs not. That being said, we do get to see how Wren behaves when she feels she's been betrayed, and we also get to see how far she'll go for those she's loyal to. She and Oak have that in common, and the two are seemingly willing to rend anything, including themselves, apart in order to save those they love.

I enjoyed following the schemes of this book and learning who the new enemies were. Bogdana is obviously a major player, but there are people in the background that get revealed as the book progresses. In TFOTA, the game is putting someone on the throne and keeping them there. In this book, it's about determining who is out for the throne and what (and who) they have on their side, all while trying to balance competing priorities.

I'm particularly interested in the setup at the end of the book that seems to promise at least one more book set in Elfhame/involving the Greenbriar-Duarte clan. Holly Black had an interview that basically said as much, so I'm super interested to see where that goes (here's hoping it's Jude and Cardan again!).

Overall I enjoyed this book and seeing how Wren and Oak's story ended. It was interesting being inside Oak's head, though I did miss Wren's POV as well. I'm looking forward to future books set in this world!

11 notes · View notes

the-queen-of-books · 10 months ago

Text

The prisoner's throne thery. When I first read the synopsis for the prisoner's throne and it mentioned "a battle that would determine the future of Eltham" my first thought was that it would be a Wren VS Jude fight . But I now fink that's exactly what Holly wants us to fink and in reality is going to be a Wren VS Bogdana battle. I can't wait to find out if I'm right. 😁😆

#the prisoner's throne #the stolen heir #oak greenbriar #the prisoners throne #oakwren #queen suren #tpt #holly black #oak x suren #suren

12 notes · View notes

slightlyrebelliouswriter23 · 2 years ago

Note

I’m actually SO surprised on your take of Wren - I thought you’d love her (this isn’t critical in any way btw) I felt like Holly made me care about Wren within a snap of her fingers and I actually felt more connected to her than Jude. Jude felt very guarded to me in FOTA where as Wren’s fear felt so tangible to me like she can’t help but be split open. I also felt like she was a very good mirror of Jude (Wanting to be Fairie vs Wanting to be mortal, also kind of Wren doing what Jude didn’t). I liked how her “feral-ness” was more out of terror, and acting w/o much thought, whereas Jude was so strategic. However, in saying that, you raised some very good points and I wonder if we’ll get more answers or see more to her in the next book?

i thought i would, too! maybe that's part of why i'm so unenthused. like i said in my post, i think the concept of her character was gorgeous. the mirroring of Jude was something i genuinely appreciated. and the ending was fantastic.

but i was disappointed in the execution. and that is a completely separate thing from what i hope for her character in the future.

i'm not saying that because i felt this first book handled her poorly that she will be handled poorly in the second book. based on the ending, i actually have pretty high hopes. however, even if some things are explained in the next book, you'd be hard pressed to remedy the ways in which i felt let down during this one.

it all seemed a bit disjointed. one minute she was like "i am a monster" "i am all rage" while also not really doing anything to back those statements up, and the next paragraph she was trusting Oak and Tiernan fully and completely, laughing and joking with them like they've been thick as thieves this whole time.

i felt too much time was spent focusing on Oak and Suren's history as "friends" when they were little (we don't need to know Oak was nice to her once, he was visibly nice to her in TFOTA) and not enough time was spent establishing Wren's fears and motivations for coming on this arduous journey when it was made clear to her a first time that she didn't have to go, and later that maybe Oak didn't even want her to go.

unlike you, i didn't feel her fear so potently as i did Jude's. and perhaps that has to do with the fact that i related to Jude more than i did Wren (irl, i am extremely guarded and do not trust others easily).

that said, where was a scene describing nightmares she surely had as a result of two years of abuse at Lady Nore and Lord Jarel's hands? where was a scene describing her desire for revenge, even if she thinks she cannot have it? where was a scene describing how afraid she was, how full of vengeance she was, and because of her proclivity for underestimating herself (probably due to the very people who made her afraid and vengeful in the first place) how impotent that made her feel? how helpless? how, with nowhere else to put it all, that storm of fear and rage sits and festers in her chest?

she spends a lot of time telling us the same lines "i am a monster" "i am afraid" "i am angry". she hardly spends any time proving those things.

#that's why i liked the ending so much cos i was like FINALLY A SHRED OF EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THE THESIS #clearly i've thought about this A LOT since i finished the book 🙈#i wanted to like her i really did #the whole thing just left me frustrated more than anything cos i knew holly could do better #idk maybe i just need to reread it lmfao #asked and answered #nonnie #the stolen heir critical #the stolen heir #the stolen heir spoilers #holly black

26 notes · View notes

xerxesthehatter · 6 years ago

Note

MULTIPLES OF 5

omg okay then!

5. If you could make only one of your OCs popular/known, who would it be?

UMM I would say Keith or Aaron cuz I love my Vampire kids who backstab each other.

10. Introduce an OC with a complicated design?

I would say my space mermaid OC’s. Celesta (which you can check out here) and their first designs

15. Do you like to talk about your OCs with other people?

Y E S!!

I would talk about my kids all day if someone let me. They mean a lot to me, and I have a lot. I have my vampire kids vs spy kids, a lot of supernatural oc’s, npcs from my two dnd campaigns, and my webcomic/film ones etc.

20. Do any of your OCs sing? If they sing, care to share more details (headcanon voice, what kind of songs they like etc)?

I do!!

Anthony is the lead singer of a rock band called No Zombies Allowed. I hc his voice to sound a lot like this, he loves rock/alternative and 80′s dance music. He writes song with his guitarist, Jude. Mostly bashing is awful ex and loves to make the crowd happy with his excitable energy!

Claire is a pop star sensation who has quite the cut throat bitchy reputation. She has a Lady Gaga/Ariana Grande vibe to her performances, i hc her voice to sound like this. Her brother Aaron also sings but its mostly to himself (he really likes Rihanna)

My NPCS Carys and Lyra also sing, Carys was a lounge singer mob boss and Lyra a famous rock star. Carys sounds a lot like this and Lyra’s voice sounds like this!

25. The OC that resembles you the most (same hobby, height, shared like/dislike for something etc?)

I already answered this one!

30. Which one of your OCs would most likely have a secret stuffed animal collection?

omg…… Lori.

35. Any sibling characters?

Oh yeah. Having siblings tends to make me give my OC’s ones, so I have a lot.

For my main ocs: I have my triplets. Ziona, Zara and Zelena. Aaron has an older sister, Claire (their mom also has a sibling so yay uncle). Keith used to have an older sister named Libby. Wade has a younger brother named Simon or “Sim”. Camila is the youngest of three: older sister Josie and older brother Matías. Tristan has four older siblings: Gertrude, Dorian, Roma, Remi and one younger sibling, Benjamin. Dahila is the youngest of three with two older brothers: Odalis and Rilitan. Lucy has an adoptive brother which is Anthony. Evangeline sees her cousin Constantine like an older brother (so that counts!).

My NPC Wren has a younger sister named Dove, who is a treasure. My upcoming webcomic my main char Merc has a younger brother named Val too.

40. Any fond memories linked to your characters? Feel free to share!

I have a lot of fond memories with Aaron being like my first really fleshed out OC, and Lucy helped me out a lot growing up with my “teen angst”.

My dnd char Rosamythe I look back fondly with her being my first dnd char and college. Some feelings are better than others but very fond none the less.

45. A character you no longer use?

Um I have a lot I don’t use anymore. I had some villain ones when my spy kids would beat them up but that story grew to be more of a supernatural men in black. They still could be used but they would really need some revamping.

Also my OC’s Ariana and Chris. I miss Ariana so much, I love my punk sweetheart.

50. Give me the good ol’ OC talk here. Talk about anything you want!

I really really love my kids!

I’m really shy about talking about them but I’ve been trying to put stories and art together for them to share. I’m thinking about making a webcomic with my main ones and others. I might even do something with The Secret Door Campaign I have, my friends seemed to like the story for that one.

Thanks for the ask!

#xerxes gets an ask #dalkin #oc's #ask meme

0 notes